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Miamilawyer – it is true that most people who call themselves Conservative and Reform probably do not really believe in Conservative or Reform philosophy, but then they are not really Conservative or Reform. The things that Joseph and myself were saying were about people who are Conservative or Reform, not those who call themselves Conservative or Reform.

In any case, even if they are not apikorsum, it is still a problem that they affiliate with a movement that is, and we certainly are not allowed to encourage them to do so. It is great that they do some Mitzvos, but it would be better if they did those Mitzvos w/o identifying as Conservative or Reform. The Chilonim in Israel keep many Mitzvos but don’t identify as conservative or reform. I am not judging the people – obviously, they don’t know better, and it is wonderful that they are trying to do what they can. I am just stating what objectively would be better and should be encouraged if possible. Certainly, as Orthodox Jews, we have to be very careful not to say or do anything that appears as though we are giving legitimacy to the conservative or reform movements, while at the same time respecting the individual people for trying to do what they can.