@HaKatan – I fail to see humor in anything you say. The parody was to show you what you sound like. Apparently it wasn’t effective because you *still* don’t get it.
You’re never going to convince me of your position, just as I am never going to convince you of mine. Like Chaim, I will continue to answer you Rav for Rav, Midrash for Midrash, Gemara for Gemara, despite your pathetic one-line pronouncments delegitimizing anyone who doesn’t agree with you. And I will continue to point out the critical methodological error in the SR�s work � We do not issue Psak Halacha based on Aggada, which *is not* up for debate. What you and somejewiknow should do is quit slandering the Religious Zionist community once and for all and apologize.
@Always_Ask_Questions – The issue with threads concerning Zionism, the IDF, etc. is that backers of HaKatan’s position define Zionism as it was defined in the 1800-1900s within the realm of nationalism that was de rigueur at the time. They also (incorrectly) lump ideologically secularist Zionism together with Religious Zionism. To them, it is all black-and-white. That isn’t how things were and they are certainly not so today, which does in fact require HaKatan and his ilk to reexamine their position. The average Religious Zionist doesn’t define Zionism or Religious Zionism the way HaKatan and company do. Neither do ideologically secularist Zionists. And secularist Zionists don’t define Zionism in the manner of Religious Zionism or per HaKatan�s camp. There is a gulf between Rav Kook and Herzl/Ben Gurion, just like there is one between the SR and Rav Kook, but HaKatan and somejewiknow will not admit to such. Instead, it�s all the same because of �Zionism� (Nice Tzad HaShave on their part, but it�s quite erroneous). That makes any sort of discussion impossible.
It’s also impossible to have a discussion because HaKatan’s camp insists on preconditions for the discussion, which everyone has to accept. Those �facts� are: (1) Zionism in any form � even Religious Zionism – is heresy; (2) Rav Kook, Ein HaBanim Semeicha or any other source that supports our position (Orot, Avnei Nezer and Alo Na’aleh specifically come to mind, as do parts of Lev Avraham, even Rabbi J.B. Soloveitchik) are all illegitimate sources; (3) Zionists are “kofrim” (an ad hominem attack against those who disagree, which is a logical fallacy); (4) Zionism is an aveira; and (5) the only unimpeachable sources are VaYoel Moshe and a few terse statements by several Litvish Rabbonim. That�s exactly what HaKatan and somejewiknow did, and the record on this form proves as such.
This sadly and unfortunately is like the Israeli government negotiating with the PA or Hamas, where Hamas sets preconditions that Israel has to accept before negotiations can even begin. Yes, I did just make that comparison – because it is true. No discussion can be had under such circumstances, because there isn�t anything to discuss.
@somejewiknow – I answered you in the other thread. Go read Rav Aviner’s work � it�s available on multiple websites. While you�re at it, also Avnei Nezer and Rav Drukman�s work about it. This really isn’t difficult.