@ somejew
“The core of zionism is heretical �self-determination� as THEY define it: a rejection of reliance on Hashem both in the gulis (galus) as well as to take us out of gulis.”
Since you obviously know that hishtadlus does not contradict reliance on Hashem. What your argument boils down cam be summed up in the following 4 steps:
1) Premise A. The 3 oaths preclude hishtadlus in establishing and perpetuating a Jewish State before the coming om Meshiach
2) Premise B. That the 3 oaths are binding today is obvious
3) Premise C. The rejection of what is obvious per the Torah is a Kfira.
4) Conclusion. Zionism, including R”Z, advocates hishtadlus in establishing and perpetuating a Jewish State before the coming om Meshiach therefore per the above it is Kfira.
Note that for the Conclusion to be correct all 3 Premises must be true.
Let’s go one by one
Regarding Premise A. It is true that this was the Position of a number of Gedolei Yisroel. It has also been amply demonstrated in multiple posts that this is subject to dispute by other Gedolei Yisroel. YB and others have cited the Avnei Nezer. I have mentioned in a number of posts that HaRav Gedaliah Nadel personally enlisted in the IDF to fight during the 6 day war. Those are 2 of many solid examples.
Regarding Premise B. Your interaction with many posters on this forum should have provided you with more then sufficient evidence that what you claim to be obvious is not, in fact, obvious to most people. it is true that something which is clear to Rebbeim need not be obvious to the laity. That won’t help you here because this contention rests on the fact that a person who is making an error in a matter regarding which there is a consensus among the Rebbeim can ask them. That does not apply in our case since there is no consensus on this matter among Rebbeim.
That brings us to the heart of the matter. the position you advocate NECCESITATES that the opinion of the Satmar Rav actually represents the consensus of Gedolei Yisroel (past and present). You seem to understand that quite well which is why you opened a thread claiming that there is no detractors from the Satmar Rav’s opinion among Gedolei Yisroel. This is simply not the case.
Regarding Premise C. This premise is correct. I specifically worded it as a did since (as you have pointed out multiple times and I agree) we are discussing if a belief is Kfira not if people holding that belief are kofrim.
Since neither Premise A or Premise B has been established the Conclusion is not warranted