AAQ – Zionists proposed to have a [secular, atheist, socialist] Jewish state in [anywhere] (EY) and that happened, and they saved (millions) (Which millions did they save from death? The million they refused to save in Hungary, because it wouldn’t help their cause, or the 900,000 who fled Muslim countries as a direct result of the founding of the State? Maybe a few thousand were directly saved by Zionist individuals, not the movement as a whole.) from death and (assimilation) (?! Inside Israel secular Jews assimilate less by default, although the real Leftists manage to find Shiksas to bring over from Europe.) in process, and [despite their best efforts to the contrary] established [?? ??? ?????]a place where Jews can keep mitzvos and learn Torah. I am not suggesting voting for mapai [long since defunct, sort of replaced by ????? which is also defunct, now the moldering remains of the three or four Leftist parties joined forces as ‘Democratim’ to sort of stay alive], but we should acknowledge the facts. [That Hashem saved us from the Zionist efforts to destroy us ????????, which had the side effect of helping us ???????]
AAQ – I think a lot of tensions come from projecting old political arguments onto current events.
I have said that to ujm etc. But that doesn’t mean that the same underlying problems aren’t there, they just change names and ideology.
AAQ – To see effect of this history � look at Sephardim, where Shas combines multiple groups and there is less inter-group enmity.
LOL LOL LOL!!!!!!! I won’t ruin your innocence…
They did not go through haskalah and reform and socilaism � but right now, they are stam Israelis, but they are less affected by the political outrage.
Most American Ashkenazim know very little about the world of the different Sephardi communities, which is just as rich, varied, and nuanced as the Ashkenazim are. I am married to a Sephardi woman, who (despite being the daughter of a decorated veteran of the Golani Brigade) would take great offense at being referred to as “stam Israeli”. To very briefly summarize a huge topic: The Sephardi mentality does in fact tend to see community members of all levels of Jewish knowledge and observance as an organic whole. Those sometimes wayward members also tend to see themselves as full fledged part and parcel of the community, who deeply believe, respect, care, and support ???? ?????, ????? ?????, and all things Jewish, and would never be caught dead doing anything to ??? harm any of that, despite their own weaknesses. Some have attributed this to not having gone through Haskalah and Reform etc, but it goes deeper than that. (Haskalah did make it to most Sephardic lands, but later and with less ferocity.) Sephardim historically faced (relatively…) less hostility from the local non-Jews, so they tended to interact more with society at large, but still nowhere near what Americans are used to. To ????????, these traits, combined with looser dress code and seemingly “Israeli” pronunciation of ???? ?????, make Sephardi Chareidim seem more “Israeli”, but that isn’t how they see themselves. There are also different varieties of Sephardim, who unfortunately don’t always get along as harmoniously as you seem to think… although Rav Ovadia was a uniquely powerful personality, who was able to reach out to and unite very different people, and singlehandedly led a Sephardi Torah renaissance. The fact that they don’t yell and protest as much doesn’t mean they aren’t affected by the “political outrage”. The reality is that they are MORE affected. Just look at where and to whom most of the recent arrests were directed… The Leftist ??? ??, who largely despise the Sephardim and are largely despised by them, see the Sephardi Chareidim as the “weak link” in the Chareidi Torah world, and more vulnerable to “integration”. The fact that the Sephardi ????? are fully on board with a ???? coalition stretching as far as the Yerushalmim tells you pretty much everything you need to know about where they really stand now.